Could we get more details on the part that says source code will be saved in plain text? It sounds like you're getting rid of the PBL. Nobody is going to like that.
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- Roland Smith
- PowerBuilder
- Wednesday, 18 October 2023 14:05 PM UTC
- Wednesday, 18 October 2023 14:35 PM UTC
- PowerBuilder
- # 1
Hi.
Can't say if I like the idea or not. But if it's true, then some things should be handled differently... The plan is to change pbl to folder like pb.net was doing? Or to get rid? If it's the second, what will happen with pbd's? Will be able to customized if we want to still use pbl's or not?
Andreas.
- Wednesday, 18 October 2023 14:53 PM UTC
- PowerBuilder
- # 2
More and more changes and more and more bugs. How do you ever expect us to upgrade our customers? Some new things are really nice, but then next to be undone / destroyed, like the .Net "Framework" support for the DLL importer tool as an example. Appeon has said it wants to totally move away from .Net Framework and migrate to .Net 6/7/8. What about OLE and COM, that won't work anymore then is it? And of course the ever changing RTE control which is never bug free. Native PDF has also never had a bug free version. I'm scared by the idea of this upcoming change. Luckily we don't use Git because that's another PIA. (Thank you Roland for WizSource!!!!).
We need more solid testing on the part of Appeon before expecting us to do the work of testing for them whilst having angry customers. We're not upgrading anything until we see something solid out here.
just my 2cts.
- David Peace (Powersoft)
- Monday, 17 June 2024 14:35 PM UTC
We have now moved our entire source code base to PB2022R3, that is a sign of how much better we think it is. The code was sitting in a raft of older versions with the attitude of "it ain't broke so don't fix it" keeping it sitting on older versions. Pushing it all to PB2022R3 was an easy decision, the benefits outweighed the down sides. We have had to refactor some bits of code to embrace the new features that Appeon have given us, some of which have been a little problematic to be honest. Appeon have been extremely responsive to our issues and sent us fixes really quickly so they did not negatively impact on our projects. I’m very happy. But, as always will be sceptical about new releases of any software ? not just PB.
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- Miguel Leeuwe
- Monday, 17 June 2024 22:08 PM UTC
Hi,
We WILL upgrade one of these days, but I keep checking on the tickets raised for PB2022 and I think there's still too much of them. One of the (non bug) changes is the change in window sizes. Only that one, is going to cost a lot of work, since lots of windows are crammed in an exact space, but that's just an example. We'll also have to migrate our PFC classes, etc. Not sure if we'll get yet another version of the RTE control, on which we depend heavily and which has been giving us lots of head aches over the last few years. For now, 2019 R3 is working fine for us and I think we'll wait at least until the next release or MR.
Yes, you're absolutely right about Appeon being extremely responsive. No one is going to deny that.
regards.
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- Chris Pollach @Appeon
- Monday, 17 June 2024 22:57 PM UTC
Engineering hopes to have an MR ready shortly around the end of July. This should bump PB & PS up to .net 8.
Regards... Chris
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- Wednesday, 18 October 2023 15:15 PM UTC
- PowerBuilder
- # 3
I don't see the need for the pbl. pretty much everything except the IDE itself spends time exporting out to plain text before doing anything anyway.
I *assume* that the pbl originally was created due to limitations with the windows file system in 1989. Seems to just cause problems today.
SCC systems such as roland's wizsource may have the bigger problems.
- Roland Smith
- Wednesday, 18 October 2023 16:45 PM UTC
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- Andreas Mykonios
- Thursday, 19 October 2023 06:06 AM UTC
Andreas.
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- Thursday, 19 October 2023 07:02 AM UTC
- PowerBuilder
- # 4
Question to Roland,
Would you upgrade Wizsource when this change happens?
regards.
- Roland Smith
- Thursday, 19 October 2023 12:46 PM UTC
I likely won't have to make any major changes. The location the files are saved to by the IDE will probably be different so I might need to create a one time conversion utility to update the path structure in the database. I'll certainly test it thoroughly when the beta is available and make any needed changes.
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- Miguel Leeuwe
- Thursday, 19 October 2023 14:57 PM UTC
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- Roland Smith
- Monday, 17 June 2024 13:38 PM UTC
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- Thursday, 19 October 2023 08:14 AM UTC
- PowerBuilder
- # 5
From what Im seeing Armeen presenting here at the European seminars:
1. Its a new option, you can continue to use the PBL if you want to.
2. When its enabled, the source code is saved separately from the compiled pcode. The files are stored in folders that mimic the PBL structure (like the source code is stored under ws_objects today for the SVN and Git interfaces)
- Andreas Mykonios
- Thursday, 19 October 2023 08:33 AM UTC
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- Bruce Armstrong
- Thursday, 19 October 2023 08:35 AM UTC
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- Thursday, 19 October 2023 08:34 AM UTC
- PowerBuilder
- # 6
- Miguel Leeuwe
- Thursday, 19 October 2023 14:56 PM UTC
Do you have a link to the presentation? The image is a bit too blurry.
TIA
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- Thursday, 19 October 2023 08:36 AM UTC
- PowerBuilder
- # 7
"Nobody is going to like that."
I, for one, say "good riddance". :) No more large binary files that contain both source code and compiled code? Yes, please.
- Andreas Mykonios
- Friday, 20 October 2023 14:06 PM UTC
Andreas.
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- Benjamin Gaesslein
- Monday, 23 October 2023 10:08 AM UTC
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- Markus Eckert
- Monday, 23 October 2023 11:35 AM UTC
I for one won't shed many tears for PBL either.
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- Friday, 20 October 2023 10:24 AM UTC
- PowerBuilder
- # 9
We will still maintain the legacy compiler for the long-term so the PBL is not going away if you don't want it to. The new plain text format is just a choice and not forced on you. Please look at Bruce's post for more details.
- Armeen Mazda @Appeon
- Tuesday, 18 June 2024 16:10 PM UTC
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- Julie Jiang @Appeon
- Wednesday, 19 June 2024 02:48 AM UTC
In this GA release we will provide a system setting for the new format workspace (solutions): When a solution is opened, whether to directly perform an incremental build, not perform an incremental build, or provide a prompt to let the user to decide.
In addition, there will be a real-time monitoring on .pbsln and .pbproj files. If the file is modified outside the IDE, the IDE will directly prompt the user to reload the solution.
Best regards, Julie
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- Andreas Mykonios
- Wednesday, 19 June 2024 06:23 AM UTC
Andreas.
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- Friday, 20 October 2023 14:18 PM UTC
- PowerBuilder
- # 10
So ...
If I understood Bruce's image (from a presentation by Armeen I still don't know anything about), we are only going to get P-Code based executables?
(I don't mind, I prefer P-Code, but it might be and important thing to know for other people).
- Roland Smith
- Friday, 20 October 2023 14:30 PM UTC
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- Chris Pollach @Appeon
- Friday, 20 October 2023 14:46 PM UTC
For M-Code, you would need to stay with the current PBL approach in order to maintain that aspect.
Regards ... Chris
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- mike S
- Tuesday, 18 June 2024 17:44 PM UTC
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- Tuesday, 18 June 2024 16:15 PM UTC
- PowerBuilder
- # 11
Hi Roland;
FYI: Here is what I see in my PB 2025 alpha version PB App wise. Note that the Workspace object is gone being replaced by the new "Solution" object. PBL's are now folders and PB objects are basically like you would export their source in the current PB 2022 Rx releases ...
HTH
Regards .. Chris
- Roland Smith
- Tuesday, 18 June 2024 17:23 PM UTC
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- Chris Pollach @Appeon
- Tuesday, 18 June 2024 18:42 PM UTC
I fired up my "early Alpha" PB 2025 release just now, added a picture object and then assigned that a GIF image.
After a Full Build & Deploy of the App EXE, I could not see anywhere where the 2025 IDE was tracking the external object.
So I am "assuming" that the answer to your question is NO in PB 2025 GA *but* I should point out that this is a very "early" alpha build of PB 2025 that I am currently using. So we would need to get Engineering's "take" on what GA release will have to be 100% sure.
Regards .. Chris
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- Benjamin Gaesslein
- Wednesday, 19 June 2024 09:58 AM UTC
I kinda wish they would've kept the ws_objects folder for source files. This will mean moving every single source file in git. Not the end of the world but not ideal either.
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- Wednesday, 19 June 2024 13:49 PM UTC
- PowerBuilder
- # 12
"Nobody is going to like that."
Speak for yourself, the whole world and all new technologies use this characteristic.
- Wednesday, 19 June 2024 15:09 PM UTC
- PowerBuilder
- # 13
hello everyone, this sounds a good improvement imho
anyway thinking about this, i have a pair of questions that maybe someone could answer.
1) Using the new compiller, along with the .EXE, all the .PBDs will still be created? if yes like i guess, there will be one PBD for every folder (ex .PBL)?
2) Imagine we are using InfoMaker and distribute a .PBL containing several reports that we could modify remotely on a client's machine without the need to rebuild and recompile, how to accomplish this task using the new approach? Should we distribuite the source folder containing the source dw reports instead of the old PBL?
- Chris Pollach @Appeon
- Wednesday, 19 June 2024 15:31 PM UTC
That is a great question! No, you will not be able to accomplish this cross PBL use between IM 2025 & PB 2025
You will need to stay with a "WorkSpace" approach in PB 2025 in order to share PBL's between IM 2015 as IM will continue as a "workspace".
This will be one of the key considerations you will need to make in PB 2025 *before* switching from a WS to a Solution approach.
Regards .. Chris
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However, you are not allowed to reply to this question.
This is a VERY popular thing that many PB shops use in production with IM!
Also, I have developed "Ad-Hoc" reports in PB that are dynamically added to production Apps in a similar manner.
Then there is the case of storing DWO's in a DBMS and dynamically adding them to a PBL at runtime.
I use dynamic PBLs when unit testing my PB Apps. This is a great PBL feature advantage IMHO.
I also use a WIP PBL in development environment process to "test" potential object changes before I actually check out the real object and make a permanent cod change.
So in these above cases (and I am sure that there are many other "Use Case"), you would need to stay with the current PBL technology
You will *not* be forced into the new "Solution" Workspace mode. ;-)
PB Developers will need to assess the Risk / Benefit though before converting as it is a "one way street".
Food for thought. HTH
Regards ... Chris
PS: The same considerations apply for PBD's as well BTW.
Best regards, Julie