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Resolved PowerBuilder on the all new Microsoft Copilot+ ARM based Windows machine

  1. How-to
2
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  1. Steen Jakobsen
    Steen Jakobsen
  2. PowerBuilder
  3. Friday, 31 May 2024 05:02 AM UTC

Hi Appeon

 

Will PowerBuilder work on the new Microsoft Copilot+ ARM based Windows machines ?

And if yes will it be using the x86 emulator or natively?

If only the emulator will Appeon support Windows ARM based computers or only on legacy x86 ?

 

Thanks

Steen

  1. PowerBuilder (Appeon)
  2. Windows OS
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Responses (4)
Mark Goldsmith
Mark Goldsmith Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. Wednesday, 12 June 2024 18:57 PM UTC
  2. PowerBuilder
  3. # 1

Here is a link to some thoughts on the potential market growth of Arm-based Windows PCs...

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/qualcomm-ceo-says-arm-taking-50-of-the-windows-pc-market-in-five-years-is-realistic-some-oems-already-expect-snapdragon-chips-to-be-60-of-their-sales-within-three-years

...I absolutely appreciate Appeon's need to prioritize as we all have to.  That said, the demand/ need for this capability may be bigger and sooner than currently understood.  Even if you set aside some of the marketing fluff, it's still something to keep in mind as (near) future PB roadmaps evolve.

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mike S
  1. mike S
  2. Wednesday, 12 June 2024 19:09 PM UTC
The new microsoft surface pro 11 and new surface laptop 7 are only arm. Microsoft is so assured of the emulator's ability to run x86/x64 win32 apps that they don't have intel options at all.



The future is now.
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mike S
mike S Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. Wednesday, 12 June 2024 17:31 PM UTC
  2. PowerBuilder
  3. # 2

from what i've been reading, Windows 11 and especially with 24H2 release with the Prism emulation engine should allow PB applications to run without issue on ARM devices. 

PDF generation using a pdf printer driver (ghostscript, amyuni, .. ) may not work however as x86 based drivers are listed by microsoft as potentially incompatible.   My guess is that the native pdf generation should work since it does not use a printer driver to work.

 

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mike S
mike S Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. Friday, 31 May 2024 14:08 PM UTC
  2. PowerBuilder
  3. # 3

The main question is does it work?  has anyone tried/tested with it?

 

Hopefully this is something that appeon will plan to test with and eventually support.     This should be an easy alternative to the discontinued ios/android powerserver.

 

 

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Chris Pollach @Appeon
  1. Chris Pollach @Appeon
  2. Friday, 31 May 2024 16:50 PM UTC
I think that Armeen meant to say ARM
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Ronnie Po
  1. Ronnie Po
  2. Friday, 31 May 2024 16:53 PM UTC
FWIW, on Apple M-series Macs (ARM-based), PB seems to work in Windows 11 (ARM based, with x86 emulation) running in a Parallels virtual machine:

https://community.appeon.com/index.php/qna/q-a/pb-2019-pb-2022-does-work-on-my-new-apple-m3-max-running-windows-11-in-parallels

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Chris Pollach @Appeon
  1. Chris Pollach @Appeon
  2. Friday, 31 May 2024 17:06 PM UTC
Hi Ronnie;

Yes, the best approach would be to try MS-Windows on the ARM platform in emulation mode to see if it works. However since ARM is not supported, you're basically at the "use at own risk" doorstep. ;-)

Regards .. Chris
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Chris Pollach @Appeon
Chris Pollach @Appeon Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. Friday, 31 May 2024 13:55 PM UTC
  2. PowerBuilder
  3. # 4

Hi Steen;

  Thus far, only "Intel" or equivalent (ie: AMD) x86 / x64 CPU based machines.

FYI: https://docs.appeon.com/pb2022r3/installation_guide_for_pb/System_Requirements.html

Regards .. Chris

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mike S
  1. mike S
  2. Friday, 31 May 2024 23:13 PM UTC
@roland - issue 11771 is not public, so we can't see it.
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Roland Smith
  1. Roland Smith
  2. Wednesday, 12 June 2024 17:39 PM UTC
I changed it to public.
  1. Helpful
David Peace (Powersoft)
  1. David Peace (Powersoft)
  2. Thursday, 13 June 2024 13:13 PM UTC
I appreciate what you are saying Roland, but essentially PB is a UI development tool. Yes, we have used your PBNIServ to run PB as a service and the logical extension of that is running the service on Windows Core but really that is such a small market opportunity that I can understand why Appeon are not really going to change the runtime just for that.



The same goes for running PB apps on tablets and other mobile devices. Yes, we all say we want this. But in reality we are not prepared to make the effort or adjust to the constraints of any solution that Appeon offer. I have a great deal of sympathy with Appeon when deciding where to spend your limited R&D budget.



With regards to ARM specifically, Microsoft look like they say there is an emulator and in the past MS have been very good at keeping old shite software running. The fact that the X86 emulator was so good is why we are all pretty much running X86 PB apps still. If the MS emulator didn't work or had severe limitations then we would have moved to 64Bit a lot quicker.



Having said that, really what do I know?



Time will tell.

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