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Resolved Powerbuilder 2017R3 and TFS Source control

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  1. Ganesan Rajan
    Ganesan Rajan
  2. PowerBuilder
  3. Tuesday, 19 January 2021 05:38 AM UTC

Dear Experts,

I have queries related to Powerbuilder 2017 R3's compatibility with TFVC (TFS Version control).

At present we are using VSS as our Source Code Management Tool

We are doing a PoC to check how TFVC suits as SCM tool for Powerbuilder. Initial findings are as below

1. Able to do checkout/checkin/Getlatest within PB IDE without any issues
2. Able to add new objects via PB IDE.
3. Able to do getlatest of all PBLs and create full build.
4. In addition to PB IDE, we use Visual studio Team explorer to check version history and show difference.

Another advantage is that it is similar to VSS from developer's perspective and hence no learning curve involved.

Hence we are going to use TFVC as SCM for our PB project.

We are not planning to for Git, as we don't need all the niche features that the git provide. Also we don't have people to support Git within our company.


DO anyone foresee any risk in using TFVC with PB2017R3?

 

Thank you in Advance,

Ganesan R

  1. PowerBuilder (Appeon)
  2. TFS
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Accepted Answer
Armeen Mazda @Appeon
Armeen Mazda @Appeon Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. Tuesday, 19 January 2021 06:16 AM UTC
  2. PowerBuilder
  3. # Permalink

TFVC is really outdated.  Use Git repository of TFS instead of TFVC.  

PowerBuilder 2017 R3 natively supports Git, and in PowerBuilder 2019 R3 it has been enhanced to support branching and other features.  

Microsoft has made Git the default source control for TFS since 2013, and they provide a migration solution to move away from TFVC: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/devops/learn/git/migrate-from-tfvc-to-git

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Responses (5)
Ganesan Rajan
Ganesan Rajan Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. Thursday, 21 January 2021 10:51 AM UTC
  2. PowerBuilder
  3. # 1

Thank you for your answer

Ganesan R

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Miguel Leeuwe
Miguel Leeuwe Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. Tuesday, 19 January 2021 08:23 AM UTC
  2. PowerBuilder
  3. # 2

Hi,

We've used TFVC via MSSCC successfully in the past with PB2017, but I wouldn't recommend it. The problem is that MSSCC is no longer maintained and that for TFVC you depend on Team Explorer 2013. Not sure if you can still download that and it's no longer maintained. Also, be careful that with Windows 10 and newer servers, some programs some day "simply aren't allowed to run anymore". (just try to run SSARC.EXE of VSS 2005 on a recent W10 machine. It worked until a year ago, but now it doesn't).

Like Armeen said, MS has "gone Git". We tried to have the TF server on "the cloud" and that was totally unusable, but installing it yourself on a server worked well. We've used it for a year or so without too many problems, the main problem being that it's pretty slow! By the way, trying to manage projects on Microsoft's Team server interface is absolutely horrendous and totally user unfriendly. (I don't think the menus have been generated by human beings).

We've now been using WizSource (TopWizProgramming) for almost a year and have never been happier. We use a Firebird database (free, fast, simple, easy to backup and allowing huge databases, unlike MS SQL Server Express which we used before with TFS). It does allow other databases like MS and Oracle though.
It's simple, no need for MSSCC or similar, has exclusive locks and comes without no need for "push, pull, fetch, merge, and who knows about all the other stuff that you don't really need if you have exclusive locks. I do have to mention that we're only 2 developers so I cannot tell you how well it works with more developers.

regards

 (Edited: changed Firebase DB to Firebird DB)

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mike S
  1. mike S
  2. Tuesday, 19 January 2021 16:24 PM UTC
>> huge databases, unlike MS SQL Server Express

fwiw, you CAN have huge SCC databases with sql server express (FREE) - if you need it for wizsource:



1) wizsource compresses the stored files to begin with so you don't use as nearly as much space as you think. I would bet you don't need anywhere near 10gb express limit due to the compression.



2) wizsource stores the files in binary columns. SQL Server express has a FILESTREAM option, which will store binary data in a directory rather than directly in the database. That stored data does NOT count towards the 10GB limit, so you will have plenty of space and never hit that 10gb limit. and doing backups is very easy



so if you are already a sql server shop, i would recommend going with sql server.

  1. Helpful
Miguel Leeuwe
  1. Miguel Leeuwe
  2. Tuesday, 19 January 2021 16:37 PM UTC
Hi Mike,



- MS SQL Server Express has a 10 GB limit like you said yourself. Not very "huge". You CAN make new databases for different collections, so there's always be away around the limitations if you hit them. Also, now it's 10 GB but no one guarantees it'll stay that way. I was referring to MS SQL Server as a database for TFS, not for WizSource (though you correctly pointed out that that's a possibility).

- I agree, SQLServer is easy to backup and that if you are already on SQLServer and would like to use WizSource, then that would be a logical change.



I merely wanted to point out some of the disadvantages of TFS vs. Wizsource.

regards.
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Ganesan Rajan
Ganesan Rajan Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. Tuesday, 19 January 2021 06:59 AM UTC
  2. PowerBuilder
  3. # 3

Armeen. I get your point. But when you say TFVC is obsolete, does that mean it is not supported by Microsoft? I knpw PB2017 doesn't support TFVC natively.

Hope powerbuilder supports TFVC via MSSCCI. Sorry for going back and forth.

Thanks,

Ganesan R

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Armeen Mazda @Appeon
  1. Armeen Mazda @Appeon
  2. Tuesday, 19 January 2021 16:07 PM UTC
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply Microsoft is not supporting TFVC... I was trying to say it is outdated way of doing source control.

For about 8 years now, the default repository for TFS has been Git. And Microsoft has invested to create migration solution to get customers out of TFVC: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/devops/learn/git/migrate-from-tfvc-to-git

Yes, PowerBuilder still has the MSSCCI interface from the old days, which you can use to connect to to TFVC. In fact, we still have quite a few other customers that just like you have not yet migrated to Git.
  1. Helpful
Ganesan Rajan
  1. Ganesan Rajan
  2. Thursday, 21 January 2021 10:54 AM UTC
Thank you. We shall try our hands with TFVC first as we have been using PB+MSSCI+VSS for the past 20 years.
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Ganesan Rajan
Ganesan Rajan Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. Tuesday, 19 January 2021 06:31 AM UTC
  2. PowerBuilder
  3. # 4

Thanks for the response. But we are not planning to migrate from VSS to Git for now. Can you please let me know whether there are any known issues with PB2017R3 + TFVC?

Thanks,

Ganesan R

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Armeen Mazda @Appeon
  1. Armeen Mazda @Appeon
  2. Tuesday, 19 January 2021 16:08 PM UTC
I'm not aware of known issues, but that doesn't mean there aren't things you need to watch out for. For example, Miguel's response has some good info, and hopefully other people will comment.
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