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Resolved PowerServer - Is this what it does and how to cost it?

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  1. Aron Cox
    Aron Cox
  2. PowerServer
  3. Tuesday, 9 November 2021 12:55 PM UTC

Let's say I am a small software house. I have an old client-server application that I want to modernise. I think turning it into a web-based application makes sense because then my years of carefully built business logic can be called by anyone.

I believe this is the idea behind PowerServer, the newer version of which requires conversion of the business logic code to C# so it can be served up via a Rest API using standard tools, like IIS. I understand the conversion is now automated and pretty simple thankls to the .NET datawindow.

Does that sound right?

If so, then let's assume I have 10 customers, 5 of which are large with hundreds of users, but 5 of which are small with less than 10 users. No-one wants their data to be in the cloud, it has to be local, and therefore the right architecture seems to be to also have local PowerServer servers.

Does this mean each customer needs a PowerServer licence? The cost for the smaller customers would be pretty prohibitive, and means we couldn't change our architecure, as that would require buy-in from all customers?

Does that sound right, or am I missing something? For example is there a licence type that lets us purchase it and then use PowerServer wherever we like? Or wherever we like for a single application suite or something?

Thanks for your help.

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Responses (6)
Aron Cox
Aron Cox Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. Tuesday, 16 November 2021 08:04 AM UTC
  2. PowerServer
  3. # 1

Thanks everyone. It seems you do need a server licence for each network you're running on, but as Armeen said there are at least OEM licences that work out cheaper.

I will soon be in discussion without .NET Team as they want to integrate their code with our huge amount of PowerBuilder code so we're about to look at all the possible ways we can do that, and maybe PowerServer would be of some help, it's been such a long time since I looked it it, Elevate 2019 I think I can't really remem,eber what it does :)

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Armeen Mazda @Appeon
  1. Armeen Mazda @Appeon
  2. Tuesday, 16 November 2021 12:20 PM UTC
Check out the 5-minute product tour: https://www.appeon.com/products/powerserver-tour
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Simone Olianti
Simone Olianti Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. Monday, 15 November 2021 14:31 PM UTC
  2. PowerServer
  3. # 2

i'm not sure if i've understood PS2021 licensing well, but reading manual i've found this:

Same as any other web applications, for installable cloud apps, the PowerServer Web APIs must be published to a server that locates on the same LAN as the database server. If the database is not on same network as the Web APIs, every request has to go a long way from PowerServer to the database, it is highly possible that there will be performance problem.

How many licenses do I need?

A single license can be used to activate PowerServer on as many server instances as you would like, provided that:

  • Those server instances are used solely for your internal business purposes by your employees, agents and contractors, unless otherwise permitted by the type of license purchased; and
  • The number of user sessions across all servers does not exceed the licensed capacity.

So generally, most customers just need a single license. However, if you want to limit how the user sessions are distributed across multiple server instances, then you should consider to purchase multiple smaller licenses.

For now we are using the Developer edition for testing purpouses but we plan in the future to get a production license aswell.
Let's say we have 5 different customers each one with no more than 10 user sessions and all of them prefer to keep their databases (no-cloud). If we buy a single PS2021 license (i.e. 150 sessions) could we use it multiple times for each customer if the total number of user sessions don't exceed its capacity? or do we need to buy a single license for each customer? If it is the second case so i agree that probably a smaller sessions option license would be helpful even for us. Thank you in advance for clearing this up.

 

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Armeen Mazda @Appeon
  1. Armeen Mazda @Appeon
  2. Monday, 15 November 2021 17:46 PM UTC
You can serve multiple customers on single license provided your customers do not have access to manage the server. In other words, it needs to really be SaaS rather than you hosting on your customer's behalf.



The problem I see is if your customers will keep database the performance is going to be horrible. If your customers want to control their data they each should be purchasing a PowerServer license and hosting the PowerServer together with the database in same network/data center.



We have OEM licenses to significantly bring down the cost per customer for such small deployments. Please contact sales@appeon.com.
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Simone Olianti
  1. Simone Olianti
  2. Monday, 15 November 2021 22:01 PM UTC
thank you Armeen!
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Armeen Mazda @Appeon
  1. Armeen Mazda @Appeon
  2. Monday, 15 November 2021 22:53 PM UTC
You're very welcome!
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Sivaprakash BKR
Sivaprakash BKR Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. Saturday, 13 November 2021 07:04 AM UTC
  2. PowerServer
  3. # 3

Aron

Thanks for bringing this issue to this community.  I think it's an issue for all small ISVs who develop and depend on PowerBuilder.  Where ISVs want to move to Web/Cloud and are prevented due to exorbitant cost of required tools.  And we decided the following:

1.  PowerServer is not for ALL.  Explore other options available.  And we think that without Powerserver also we can cloudify in PB
2.  Move business logic to C# and call those methods as APIs calls.   
3.  We have Cloud Ready applications.
4.  Install database and .Net in local Windows Server.
5.  Use PowerClient to update.   If every client is eligible for the updates, then host it in the Cloud, else have it in the individual Clients' Windows Server.

We think that it will work out, though we have not yet implemented.   Would like to hear from experts here.

We plan to Cloudify a small project using PB 2022, if it offers a good UI development.  Current UI is not that 'modern' as per few of our customers.  They compare it with our competitors, who use other technologies/products, which are far superior in UI, as per our customer.  

Happiness Always
BKR Sivaprakash

 

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mike S
  1. mike S
  2. Saturday, 13 November 2021 16:11 PM UTC
the cost of a user session in powerserver ranges from 1.94/month to .72/month depending on quantity which is not exorbitant pricing. If you are not charging your customers on either a concurrent or named user basis, then you will probably have problems with managing your profit margins.



It would be nice if appeon had a smaller session option of say 75 sessions for 1850/year for small shops that don't have a lot of customers yet.



what pricing are you seeing for RDP types of deployment? that is the most comparable. I know microsoft's azure offering was pretty expensive compared to powerserver, and i see that they now have new pricing that is seems like it is lower than before ( is pretty hard to figure out what microsofts actual pricing is). they also had it on azure as a service, got rid of it, and now brought it back again.

I do love that with RDP you can run in on mac/android/ipad, but it also has drawbacks.



In aron's case his customers don't want to have their data in the cloud. So each of his customers would need their own powerserver install. In that case, powerclient may make more sense since everything is local anyway.

  1. Helpful 1
mike S
  1. mike S
  2. Saturday, 13 November 2021 16:20 PM UTC
found the new azure service pricing: $5.50 per user per month is azure's pricing. But is that named user or concurrent user? The effective price is actually much higher for named users than concurrent users.
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Sivaprakash BKR
  1. Sivaprakash BKR
  2. Monday, 15 November 2021 06:46 AM UTC
mike

I'm from India, where competition and pricing is very aggressive. Even for our customers with 25 computers, Powerserver's pricing is NOT acceptable to them. Well if any of our competitor's, who use any open source and free technologies are there, it becomes a nightmare for us to compete with them on pricing front.



By this I don't undermine the power of PowerServer. It works, works excellently but not viable for our Customers. So we are forced to try without PowerServer.



Hope with PowerClient and local database server we could. The same solution might work with cloud database also, with minimum tweaking, I think.

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Miguel Leeuwe
Miguel Leeuwe Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. Wednesday, 10 November 2021 10:02 AM UTC
  2. PowerServer
  3. # 4

I'm a bit confused about the licensing:

According to https://www.appeon.com/products/dotnet-datastore , the ".NET DataStore brings the productivity of PowerBuilder to C# development. It consists of open-source C# libraries that provide a non-visual DataWindow & other commonly-used PowerBuilder features. "

Maybe I don't understand, but I always thought that Open Source means "free". So where does the licensing kick in? Could I use the .Net datastore in .net without having to pay a license, depending on what I do with it?

TIA

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Miguel Leeuwe
  1. Miguel Leeuwe
  2. Wednesday, 10 November 2021 15:47 PM UTC
Hi Armeen, thanks for clearing that up.
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Armeen Mazda @Appeon
  1. Armeen Mazda @Appeon
  2. Saturday, 13 November 2021 15:28 PM UTC
You’re very welcome.
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Pierre Couvreur
  1. Pierre Couvreur
  2. Thursday, 9 December 2021 14:27 PM UTC
Hi Armeen,

I created a simple Web API, something like the tutorial but yet simpler and using my own datawindow. It makes use of "DWNet.Data".

I published it on a remote server and it starts without connecting to Appeon licence server (the server doesn't even have internet access). Nevertheless I understand that .NET datastore is not a free software.

Does I misunderstand something about what is free and what is not ?

Thank you in advance !

Pierre

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Chris Pollach @Appeon
Chris Pollach @Appeon Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. Tuesday, 9 November 2021 19:18 PM UTC
  2. PowerServer
  3. # 5

Hi Aaron;

  There are various ways to setup PowerServer 2021 licenses for these types of scenarios - including OEM. I would contact the Appeon Sales Team at Sales@Appeon.com to hear about all your options.

Regards ... Chris

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Aron Cox
  1. Aron Cox
  2. Wednesday, 10 November 2021 08:42 AM UTC
Thanks Chris. I was trying to get an idea of if it is even worth starting down the path of thinking about PowerServer for a particular set of circumstances, and the first thing I thought was a likely roadblock would be the cost.
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mike S
mike S Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
  1. Tuesday, 9 November 2021 13:27 PM UTC
  2. PowerServer
  3. # 6

Hi Aron,

you can keep your current (client/server) and add on the PS option for the larger customers who can buy a PS license.  There will be some changes required for powerserver, for me it was the login processing and user licenses, but you may license differently than i do.   

I did an elevate presentation on this exact subject several years ago.  

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Aron Cox
  1. Aron Cox
  2. Tuesday, 9 November 2021 13:32 PM UTC
Thanks Mike. I will lookup your presentation, I suspect I saw it at the time, but I need a refresher :)
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mike S
  1. mike S
  2. Tuesday, 9 November 2021 14:10 PM UTC
you can also contact me directly if you want to talk over anything in particular. I am a little curious why none of your customers are willing to use cloud based, it would make updates/support a lot easier for you.
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Aron Cox
  1. Aron Cox
  2. Wednesday, 10 November 2021 08:39 AM UTC
Thanks Mike. Yes it would.
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